Running in service - how critical is it?

Grazza

Regular Member
British Zeds
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Points
24
Location
Oxford
Hi,

I'm hoping I can get some advice.

I am looking to buy a Z3M roadster and have found one with low miles c. 35k that needs some cosmetic TCL but it didn't have a running in service, can anyone tell me how critical this was? 1st service was at c. 5k miles.

Many thanks

Graham
 

Ianmc

Zorg Guru (IV)
British Zeds
The M44 Massive
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Points
165
Location
New Forest
Model of Z
Z3 (M44)
I can't imagine that a missed service circa 25 years ago makes an appreciable difference. Could of course be that it was done but the book not stamped. With such a low mileage, has the car been regularly serviced/maintained since, which would be more important to me?
 

Pingu

Zorg Guru (III)
3rd Party Trader
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Points
145
The LSD oil is changed at the 1k service, as well as a simple oil and filter change.

I would change all the fluids on a new car, but if the rear diff sounds ok, then the missed service won't be an issue - but it will affect the price. You should price in a new diff ;) .

Much more important are that Inspection 2 services have been done by someone who knows what they are doing.

Changing valve shims is not an easy job, and most haven't been done, as it requires special tools.
 

Grazza

Regular Member
British Zeds
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Points
24
Location
Oxford
Hi,

Thanks for the replies and sorry for not responding sooner had some family stuff going on.

I’ve been reading more and apparently BMW refuse to extend warranty if the running in service is significantly late (not specific to Z3M) which would indicate that they consider it to be quite important?

I’m a bit confused around the service schedule tbh. I’ve read that it’s every 6k miles in the order of oil, inspection 1, oil, inspection 2. Based on this a car with say 24k miles should have had both inspection 1 and 2 in its lifetime. I’ve also read that the inspection 1 is due around 30k and inspection 2 around 60k which would seem to contradict this? Anyone know what the definitive answer is?

I find most cars I look at have some gaps in their SH. I’m assuming that if the mileage is low then it’s likely the dash automated system will not have flagged the need for a service for potentially several years even though it would probably have made sense to do one?

Any thoughts on buying a car that has been kept in a collectors garage for 20 yrs and driven on average a couple of hundred miles a year? Seems to have been mot’d most years.

All advice greatfully received!
 

Pond

Zorg Guru (III)
British Zeds
Joined
Dec 26, 2016
Points
144
Location
Spaldingski, Lincs
Model of Z
3 litre Z3 pretending to be Italian exotica. Two previous E89 Z4s.
If it helps when I was looking to buy an 'M' BMW with an 'S' engine (not a Z3), everyone I asked said they would walk away from any that had missed the 1k 'running in' service.

Missing this service on a high performance engine may or may not be critical (although S engines are the only BMW ones which require them, so make your own mind up), but it says to me that the first owner wasn't bothered about looking after the car.

There is a theory that cars which are looked after well when new will be better when old. Makes logical sense to me.

I have also found many, many, many cars with low mileage have significant gaps in the service history. I put it down to people not thinking it is worth spending money on an engine which has hardly been used. Whether it is a false economy or not.....only time will tell.
 

Nodzed

Zorg Expert (II)
Supporter
British Zeds
M Power
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Points
231
Location
Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, England
Model of Z
Z3M Imola and Z4 (e89)
IMO If you are buying a circa 25 year old Z3M regardless of the mileage there are many other things to worry about than a non recorded running in service.

BTW Just because services aren't logged doesn't mean it didn't happen. Check the history with BMW using the VIN.

https://zroadster.org/threads/willows-new-bushes.28338/
https://zroadster.org/threads/nodzeds-m-roadster-gets-a-suspension-overhaul.15819/
https://zroadster.org/threads/z3m-clutch-and-gearbox-shift-pins.40007/
https://zroadster.org/threads/project-imola-z3m.19099/
 

Pingu

Zorg Guru (III)
3rd Party Trader
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Points
145
The period of the services is usually determined by the service indication lights, but engine oil should be changed every few years if it's not run. I would change it every three, but maybe four. I wouldn't push it much further than that with an engine like the S50/S54, as they are highly stressed when used properly.

The service indicator is actually based on mileage, and measures the amount of fuel since the last service. It's a good idea, as it means that fast driving cars are serviced more often. The average between service indications is 7,500 to 11,000 miles.

For a 25 year old car with 35k, I would hope to see at least six services based on age. These would be oil services, and at least three inspection services amongst them based on mileage. Some people wrongly assume that an Oil Service based on age will suffice for an Inspection Service based on distance. It won't.

So, you should see at least one Inspection 2. This service should have been done by someone who is competent. I would expect to see an additional invoice for valve shims (part numbers range from 11321308204 to 11321308229, 11341401415 to 11341401427 and 11341404871 to 11341404878), and the diff oil should have been changed, so there should be an invoice for diff oil.
 

1955Davidr

Zorg Guru (I)
Supporter
Joined
Apr 27, 2023
Points
86
Location
Fylde Coast
I have always followed the German way, which is don’t welly it until the oil is warm hence Porsche adding oil temp gauge. Many moons ago one of my partners leased a 330CI whenever he drove it he wellied it, I suggested that he wait for the oil to warm up before planting his right foot and his answer was that it would be going back in 24 months so why bother because it would not be his problem. The point I am making is that even if it had the running in service done his driving style would put more wear on it anyway. When buying a used car you have no idea how it was driven during the miles it did under previous owners, so listen to how it sounds and if doubtful send a sample of oil off for analysis as they did on Wheeler Dealers for the 200,000 mile Jag S-type R.
 

Pingu

Zorg Guru (III)
3rd Party Trader
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Points
145
IMO If you are buying a circa 25 year old Z3M regardless of the mileage there are many other things to worry about than a non recorded running in service.

BTW Just because services aren't logged doesn't mean it didn't happen. Check the history with BMW using the VIN.

https://zroadster.org/threads/willows-new-bushes.28338/
https://zroadster.org/threads/nodzeds-m-roadster-gets-a-suspension-overhaul.15819/
https://zroadster.org/threads/z3m-clutch-and-gearbox-shift-pins.40007/
https://zroadster.org/threads/project-imola-z3m.19099/
Just to add to the list...

 

Pingu

Zorg Guru (III)
3rd Party Trader
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Points
145
I have always followed the German way, which is don’t welly it until the oil is warm hence Porsche adding oil temp gauge. Many moons ago one of my partners leased a 330CI whenever he drove it he wellied it, I suggested that he wait for the oil to warm up before planting his right foot and his answer was that it would be going back in 24 months so why bother because it would not be his problem. The point I am making is that even if it had the running in service done his driving style would put more wear on it anyway. When buying a used car you have no idea how it was driven during the miles it did under previous owners, so listen to how it sounds and if doubtful send a sample of oil off for analysis as they did on Wheeler Dealers for the 200,000 mile Jag S-type R.
Unfortunately, you will never know if it's been looked after, but you can get clues if you get all the documentation.

Owners who buy the car just after a service from a dealer. Why was the car not serviced by the previous owner. Answer = why would they? An Inspection 2 is over a grand. Even a simple Oil Service is several hundred. That is a lot of money towards a new car. Would a dealer really spend a grand on a service? No, they would just get the stamp out of the drawer, and "flash" the 20-pin port to reset the SI (service indicator).

A good thing to look out for is the owner who services the car within a couple of months of buying it. They are probably genuine.

Fortunately, most of the "bad" owners sold their M 15 years ago when they realised that they aren't cheap to run. Mine's cost me over 50p per mile with DIY maintenance (44,000 miles in 15 years). The people who own Ms now tend to be folks who can afford to (and want to) look after them. There are exceptions to every rule, but I don't know anyone on this site who neglects their M, but I can't vouch for the few hundred out there who are not on here.


Warming up the S50 and S54 is important, because the oil needs to be thin to allow the VANOS to operate correctly. If the oil is too thick, the VANOS will "lag", and the engine will just be "off song".
 
Top